Yesterday in the chat room we were discussing starting up with a small space and low overhead, and moving into bigger spaces as our paying membership grows. Bergo suggested this space: http://saskatoon.kijiji.ca/c-housing-co ... Z242440307
Who is in favor of starting sooner rather than later and leasing a smaller space at first? I know I am
Starting Small
Re: Starting Small
I don't know... 352 square feet doesn't seem like enough room to do much, but I guess it would partially depend on the layout of the place too.
I think that we should let the level of interest dictate the size of place we start with. Once membership signup is open for a month or so we should have an idea of how many people are interested and then off that judge how big of a place we need / can afford. We should also take into account that there may be a surge in membership once we get a physical location (people who didn't want to pay until there was one).
I also have other concerns like the difficulty of attracting new members if the space we're in isn't large enough or equipped to support the things they want to do. For example, we're obviously not going to be doing any work on our cars in that space, so potential members who primarily want to do that may not join. Same could maybe be said about woodworking. So I worry that if we're missing out on all those members that we might not be able to grow enough to expand.
Just my two cents.
I think that we should let the level of interest dictate the size of place we start with. Once membership signup is open for a month or so we should have an idea of how many people are interested and then off that judge how big of a place we need / can afford. We should also take into account that there may be a surge in membership once we get a physical location (people who didn't want to pay until there was one).
I also have other concerns like the difficulty of attracting new members if the space we're in isn't large enough or equipped to support the things they want to do. For example, we're obviously not going to be doing any work on our cars in that space, so potential members who primarily want to do that may not join. Same could maybe be said about woodworking. So I worry that if we're missing out on all those members that we might not be able to grow enough to expand.
Just my two cents.
-
Tetragrammatron
- Posts: 108
- Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:40 pm
- Location: Saskatoon
- Contact:
Re: Starting Small
There are definitely issues with attracting new membership when our space is so small, but at the same time it would allow us to grow and obtain more funds as we currently have very little in place in terms of structured income. We can move to bigger better places before the finances in place.
It definitely depends on what this place is like though....it would be great if it was just one of those little stripmall type deals, but I"m guessing this is actually office space in some backroom or something. Would love to see pics.
It definitely depends on what this place is like though....it would be great if it was just one of those little stripmall type deals, but I"m guessing this is actually office space in some backroom or something. Would love to see pics.
Re: Starting Small
Google maps FTW:
Looks like it's across form the Canada post office in sutherland
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source= ... 4.1,,0,2.8
Looks like it's across form the Canada post office in sutherland
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source= ... 4.1,,0,2.8
-
DigitalOSH
- Posts: 435
- Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:03 pm
Re: Starting Small
The size here is definitely not much and it's only an example, but i do feel like a small affordable space is a lot more likely to propel us to something bigger. I don't know how many people want to wait around until we're at the dollar numbers where we can afford a big space, whereas i feel like consistent membership will grow organically from actually having a space.
Re: Starting Small
I agree completely. The trick will be finding a place large enough to be useful.
That said, if we get a space that excludes a few types of activities at the start, we can always expand later if it's feasible. Some activities are very space-expensive by their very nature. Kaldonis used the examples of car stuff and woodworking above. Car stuff is tricky because you need both a garage door and a large amount of space that has to sit empty. Woodworking can be tough for similar reasons, depending on the scale. You need an area close to the size of a single-car garage to operate a table saw safely (if you're cutting sheet goods), though some of that can double as workbench area if people are willing to move. Then there are noise and dust concerns, etc. Smaller machinery is easier to work around, and can be used with general-purpose workbenches.
There are also zoning concerns. James has a friend at city hall, who sent some info when he inquired about that space we were looking at on Taylor at the last meeting:
That said, if we get a space that excludes a few types of activities at the start, we can always expand later if it's feasible. Some activities are very space-expensive by their very nature. Kaldonis used the examples of car stuff and woodworking above. Car stuff is tricky because you need both a garage door and a large amount of space that has to sit empty. Woodworking can be tough for similar reasons, depending on the scale. You need an area close to the size of a single-car garage to operate a table saw safely (if you're cutting sheet goods), though some of that can double as workbench area if people are willing to move. Then there are noise and dust concerns, etc. Smaller machinery is easier to work around, and can be used with general-purpose workbenches.
There are also zoning concerns. James has a friend at city hall, who sent some info when he inquired about that space we were looking at on Taylor at the last meeting:
I know you were thinking about the location on Taylor St but I am pretty sure that would not be an approved use here. You might be able to get away with a B3 or higher zoning district which does allow for the repair of household goods and appliances. The link below has the map of the city divided into sections. Click on a neighbourhood and it will tell you the specific zoning for each site.
http://www.saskatoon.ca/DEPARTMENTS/Com ... ssMap.aspx
However it would be better if you looked at an industrial zoning district. An IL3 zoning district which is a Limited Light Industrial is generally cheaper then other industrial areas and I am pretty sure that you would be able to get approval here. If you go to the link below you will find the zoning map and the IL3 areas are in the north end by the Silverwood Golf Course (pg 3).
http://www.saskatoon.ca/DEPARTMENTS/Com ... on/113.pdf
This is the general zoning map of the entire city. http://www.saskatoon.ca/DEPARTMENTS/Com ... nd_Use.pdf
Re: Starting Small
That is some good info rsilk. Yeah I think we have to be careful, for me this discussion is not about a particular place but about: how much financial support there really is, how many people will be using simultaneously, and what people want to see before they will through in their financial support.
Saskatoon has a disadvantage compared to New York and Vancouver when it comes to hackspaces. Garages and basements are cheap here we have to convince people to come to a communal space that may be costly in comparison. I think having a small space and showing the benefits of the group may help loosen some wallets. Or maybe people are ready to pay and we just haven't given them the proper opportunity.
Part of this issue is the lack of member signup on the page. We still have no real sense of how many people want to contribute monthly vs how many people are just curious and want to see what happens. Has there been any word on this? I think FingerTech even went ahead and posted the code for the PayPal subscription button. But doesn't look like anything has happened with that.
Saskatoon has a disadvantage compared to New York and Vancouver when it comes to hackspaces. Garages and basements are cheap here we have to convince people to come to a communal space that may be costly in comparison. I think having a small space and showing the benefits of the group may help loosen some wallets. Or maybe people are ready to pay and we just haven't given them the proper opportunity.
Part of this issue is the lack of member signup on the page. We still have no real sense of how many people want to contribute monthly vs how many people are just curious and want to see what happens. Has there been any word on this? I think FingerTech even went ahead and posted the code for the PayPal subscription button. But doesn't look like anything has happened with that.
-
DigitalOSH
- Posts: 435
- Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:03 pm
Re: Starting Small
Membership page is up! sktechworks.ca > Become a Member or http://membership.sktechworks.ca
Re: Starting Small
Based on our experience in Edmonton, there will be many more people curious about the group than will actually join. For us only approximately half of the members involved in planning actually transitioned to active paying members. I would strongly suggest a bootstrap approax: Get started with a reasonably sized space, maybe 500-10000sqft and build it up. I think the major difficulty in a successful hackerspace is not the space, but the vibrant community. It is the community that will convice people to leave their basements and garages and join the group.Odemia wrote: Saskatoon has a disadvantage compared to New York and Vancouver when it comes to hackspaces. Garages and basements are cheap here we have to convince people to come to a communal space that may be costly in comparison. I think having a small space and showing the benefits of the group may help loosen some wallets. Or maybe people are ready to pay and we just haven't given them the proper opportunity.
Part of this issue is the lack of member signup on the page. We still have no real sense of how many people want to contribute monthly vs how many people are just curious and want to see what happens.
-Matt